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god is smiling on you but he's frowning, too
hip-hop
soopageek
n March of last year, I made a prediction for 2007, concerning this year's inductees to the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. I predicted it would be the first year that a Rap/HipHop artist would be inducted and that the artist would be Grandmaster Flash and the Furious Five.

On January 8th, it was announced that this year's inductees were Grandmaster Flash and the Furious Five, Patti Smith, The Ronettes, Van Halen, and R.E.M.

To be fair, I also made some auxiliary predictions concerning The Sugarhill Gang and Sylvia Robinson riding on the coattails of GF+F5. I also was apparently wrong about their eligiblity; GF+F5 have been eligible AND nominated for the past three years running. However, I have to bask in the glory of calling-out the dissenting opinions of lossfound and welfy, who didn't think rap artists would even be included in the Hall of Fame, and to a certain degree, democritus and thawaltzingfool who didn't think this would be the year. Just a moment or two... oh yes, it feels good.

For me, the question still remains: will any more of rap's first old-school be recognized? The precedent has been set and the flood gates are now officially open. I personally don't think The Sugarhill Gang or Kurtis Blow are worthy, though I still think Robinson should get a non-performing recognition someday as a producer and founder of Sugarhill Records. In addition to being instrumental in giving rap it's first hit ("Rapper's Delight"), her duties in that capacity resulted in writing credits on dozens and dozens of rap's early songs, including "The Message". Maybe Afrikka Bambaataa? The second old-school starts becoming eligible over the next 4-5 years. Technically, my beloved Beastie Boys are already eligible, but I doubt they'll get a nomination until 2011 (the 25th anniversary of Licensed to Ill). Run-DMC are eligible in 2009. LL Cool J in 2011 and Public Enemy in 2013.

The Stooges were snubbed yet again, 13 years and counting. I think this year made like, 5 straight years they've been nominated but not inducted. I can't think of any other artist currently eligible that has had more wide-ranging influence than the Stooges. Certainly more than Patti Smith or The Ronettes. As for next year, there are a couple of first-year shoo-ins on-deck: Madonna and Metallica. Sonic Youth becomes eligible next year, too. They're certainly deserving, but if the Stooges can't manage an induction I don't have much faith Sonic Youth will make it the first go-around.

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Sonic Youth becomes eligible next year, too. They're certainly deserving, but if the Stooges can't manage an induction I don't have much faith Sonic Youth will make it the first go-around.

I know. What the hell is up with that.

Oh, but Van Halen? That meant I got to hear "Panama" on fucking NPR on the way home from work the other day.

Fucking sweet.

jump back, what's that sound?

I think the Stooges will get the induction eventually. The fact that they're nominated every year seems to say something. I think Sonic Youth will eventually be inducted as well. I just doubt it will be their first year of eligibility. Their influence on rock and roll, their very large catalogue, and their innovation (particularly Moore/Ranaldo), I think makes it inevitable. The Hall of Fame LOVES innovative/press-the-envelope guitarists, as evidenced by Van Halen's recent induction. It's just a matter of time for SY.

Diamond Dave was a god among men.

Re: jump back, what's that sound?

Can you recommend some Stooges music for me? Specific albums? The only thing I'm familiar with from them is their cover of "Now I Wanna Be Your Dog" that was in the movie Lock, Stock, and Two Smoking Barrels. Rarely do I think covers are as good as the original...but this one is...or at least comes pretty damn close.

Erm, it wasn't THAT important to me that a hip-hop artist made it to the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, seeing that I'm pretty indifferent to the entire hall of fame anyway. Did you want me to pretend to act indignant and upset? :^P

Did you want me to pretend to act indignant and upset?

It's time for your petulant frenzy.

You're petulant and you're having a frenzy.




Bonus points for Soop if he can name artist and song.

Oh it's not a question of it being important to you. But how often do I get an opportunity to triumph in a public disagreement forever recorded on LiveJournal? Mwahahahaha.

I presume it's David Lee Roth Van Halen and not Van Hagar or the ill-conceived ExtremeHalen ?


The four founding members and Sammay Hagar were inducted. Gary Cherone was not included, thank heavens.

Wow. I'd imagine that getting David, Eddie, and Sammy all on stage simultaneously would be all sorts of interesting.

This perpetual snubbing of the Stooges for the Hall of Fame is starting to really annoy me in a bad way.

I agree. When you trace back through punk's family tree, all the branches converge at The Stooges. It's long overdue.

as amusing as i find iggy pop, i think this is never going to happen either. and i find the stooges are generally overrated / overstated as a predecessor of punk. same goes for MC5.

i would say that the beasties don't stand a chance unless from the five boroughs and possibly hello nasty are somehow erased from the public consciousness.

but then again, R.E.M. still got inducted.

but then again, i think the beasties only had one legitimately good record. R.E.M. had at least two.

as for grandmaster flash, don't really care that you were right / i was proven wrong. but as much as i'd love to see PE get inducted as a result of all this, i think they'd better consider changing the name of the hall of fame if they are going to start doing this sort of thing on a regular basis. "recorded popular music hall of fame," perhaps?

Nah, I think the Beastie Boys are a shoo-in and while I'm certinaly biased, I think they more than meet the criteria. Licensed to Ill was the first rap album to go to number one on the pop charts. Paul's Boutique was groundbreaking and innovative, even if it wasn't a commercial success. Check Your Head was a solid album and Ill Communication, while self-indulgent, had it's moments. I'll give you that Hello Nasty was pretty awful but To the 5 Boroughs was reasonably strong to be an album 20+ years into their career.

Other than LL Cool J, no other rap artist has enjoyed a viable and marketable career as long as the Beasties. They were instrumental in broadening the audience of rap to white America. Along with Eminem, they are the only other rap artist in regular rotation on modern rock stations. As label entreprenuers they contributed to furthering the careers of an eclectic stable of bands and have lent their clout to organizing fund-raising festivals.

Until this year there has been a continuing question mark about the inclusion of rap artists to the Rock Hall. In my mind, there's no question. Rap is not only a product of rock and roll, but has been a continuing influence upon it. There's no question that the Red Hot Chili Peppers will someday be inducted and it's impossible to imagine that band without rap's influence. Or Beck? Rage Against the Machine? Chemical Brothers? Crystal Method? Any of the legions of Nu Metal bands?

given that rock is based entirely on thievery from early blues and country artists that were largely ignored from the get-go, i think that-- given the NAME of the hall of fame-- it would be very easy to ignore rap while including acts, eventually, that were strongly influenced by hip-hop.

that said, i honestly hope that humanity will come to an end before anyone nominates Linkin Park (or RATM or Chemical Bros or Crystal Method, for that matter).

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